Some notes on the transcription…
I wanted to provide a transcript of The PhD Life Raft podcast episodes to make the material more accessible.
I have used an automated transcription service to produce this document. These, as we all know, are not 100% accurate. Please excuse the odd typos and grammatical mis-translations. I hope that you will find the documentation of this conversation useful.
You can find the full interview here: https://thephdliferaft.libsyn.com/
Emma
Hello, Gordon,
gordonmorrison
hello.
Emma
Thank you so much for being here. And the first thing I really need to say to you is congratulations, because you are through. You’re just you’re newly Well, working on corrections, but newly doctored. It’s amazing, really amazing. And I am so grateful that in that moment you thought to contact me and say, can talk? I’d be happy to talk to people about that feeling that you’re never going to finish.
gordonmorrison
Yes, I felt duty bound. Haven’t haven’t found your podcast really useful and helpful to make me feel a bit better about things when things so I felt maybe I owed you one.
Emma
Um, well, thank you very much. Thank you. And I’m sure that experience that lots of people can relate to, and we’re going to, we’ll get, we’ll get deep into that in a minute. But first of all, I’m going to ask the same question that I ask everybody, in terms of to tell us a little bit about your PhD journey.
gordonmorrison
Yeah. I mean, my background is I’m a golf club professional, which means I do spend most of my time coaching and about I did a Masters in 2009 2010 in sports psychology, just to to further educate myself, and took a little break after that, usually after you finish studying, you don’t want to study anymore. But then within three, four years, I had got the urge and the itch to go further. And then a few of my colleagues were doing it. It was a growing trend in the profession to go for that level of education, so I I decided to do sports psychology, a combination with control, PhD, investigating de skilling. I suppose you could call it, but it was in sports we have a phenomenon where people can particularly simple skills. They can execute these skills, but then one day, often, suddenly they just can’t execute the skill anymore, maybe something like they call it dar Titus and darts, where they can’t let go of the darts. Cricket bowlers get it in particular golf, I’m a golf professional, so it was like hitting Short Shots onto the green people just suddenly twitch and flinch. And so it was to investigate that, wow. And I’m interested in skill development. So it was the, it was the opposite of that, you know, studying, why do skills devolve? You know, what? Why? Why do they that’s probably not the right word, but why do people get de skilled or so? That’s, that was 2014 I met, I met with Birmingham University, and they okayed my ideas, and I applied. I started part time, more than 10 years ago. So that was, that’s why I got into it was just the sports psychology and the skill development were a big interest of mine, amazing
Emma
and mate, one interesting area to be working in as well. So this was a journey for you coming out of your professional experience. So you’re a person who had a professional career behind you, already had a master’s, and yet you still had those feelings of, Oh, my goodness, I’m not going to be able to do this. So let, let’s dive into that and tell us a little bit about that journey through and how you navigated those kinds of thoughts.
gordonmorrison
Yeah. I mean, it was such an up and down experience. So working full time, I don’t want to put people off, but working full time and and doing a PhD,
gordonmorrison
oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. You have a, like, a busy day. Maybe you have a 12 hour day at work, and you come home and you had planned to study that night. Well, it gets put on the shelf, you know. And that can sort of snowball and, you know, you start to, initially, started out with the idea that I published four studies, you know, that would be a great thesis, but the workload of that was just astronomical. I tried to publish the first one, and got refused three or four times. And I thought, you know, hey, this is not good enough quality work, is it? And a lot of doubts crept in. And anyway, I gave up on the publication element and just continued on. I did four applied studies, but which I think got me a lot of respect from the examiners in the end, because getting out there and working with people is messy and it takes part
gordonmorrison
time. Element was it was a challenge. And then two years after starting, I mean, to be honest, I started it because I was at golf pro, but at the time, the golf business wasn’t thriving, and I was doing some part time lecturing and in the university in the winter in Sunderland, where it was based at the time, and that was my main reason for starting the PhD, really, was that Sunderland said to me, you know, if you had a PhD, we could probably employ you more. But then two years in, I get a job offer in golf. That’s, that’s couldn’t turn down. And I thought about quitting at that point. I thought, do I need this now? And I thought, well, you know, I’m not the kind of person to quit, so I’m interested. I’ll keep going. But then three years later, another job change, and then COVID and and so on, and all a lot of these things through obstacles in my way, like moving house. COVID meant I couldn’t work with people for quite a long time. I took a leave of absence of the job to go to China, and then that never happened because of COVID. So it was quite a lot of personal life chaos, and you’re trying to keep this thing going. And then many times I thought about quitting, and I just thought, you know what? It’s too much. I there’s other things in life. Will it kill me if I quit? No, but I would say, now I’m certainly glad I kept going, even though the last couple of years were very challenging. You know, more or less all my spare time was, was, was put into the to the study and, well, I say that, I mean spare time being, you know, time where I wasn’t spent trying to have a life outside of my work, and so it’s really difficult making priorities. I think that that’s, that’s the thing. But one great tip I got was from one of the review meetings I had was to just write a bit every day. You know, you start writing,
gordonmorrison
and that’s something done. It’s another brick in the wall. You’re one step close. And I kept that that sort of resonated with me really, but I really did think I wasn’t going to finish, but, yeah, go on. Sorry.
Emma
Well, I think this, and that makes a lot of sense, right? Because lots of things were happening. And I think that this sense of life doesn’t stop when you’re doing the PhD. In fact, life might come at you in a much more intense way, because the mindset that you’re in for the PhD is a more reflective, deeper thinking mindset. And then I always say people are you’re more sensitive when you’re doing a PhD, because that’s where that’s your mindset is in a different place. So things are coming at you. You need to earn money, you’re working and all of that. So there is a lot coming at you. So when you said to yourself, This is too much, that it’s because there is a lot.
Emma
But I think that the thing that I want to kind of come back to is what you said. I’m glad I kept going and because I think this there were going to be. I’m getting a lot of people listening to this podcast going I think, I think I’m probably done here. I think I need to give up now, because this happens to every just to say, everybody has those thoughts. Everyone has those thoughts. Some people more intensely in others. And for some people, it is right to give up. For some people, that’s that’s the right choice. But for the people who are kind of wavering, can you tell us why you’re glad that you kept going?
gordonmorrison
I think had I quit, it was two years ago. Was the biggest sort of possible change of direction where I realized I had a whole study to do. I two years left one whole study to do. Needed analyze and finish studies two and three. I had only completed an event review, which is probably out of date at this stage. And I thought, right, this is what I’m going to do here. But I just wrote down a little plan. My supervisor encouraged me to write a plan as to how I would get it over the line, and that looked doable to me. You know, when you’re when I wrote it down, I thought, well, you know, maybe I can do this. So that gave me the motivation to start. And I also found a place to write. You know, I, I found at home. If I, if I try to study at home, I every 10 minutes, you’d find a reason to stand up and go and get a cup of tea or look out the window. And so I went to the library. It was pretty quiet, and I learned a technique for time management called or study management, called the Pomodoro Technique. I don’t know if you’ve ever come across that.
Emma
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Tell us about it, in case people haven’t.
gordonmorrison
Yeah. Pomodoro means tomato in Spanish, I think, doesn’t it? And the just like, take a little section. So you were to do two hours study, for example, five minute break every 25 minutes. And I found that that relieved the exhaustion that I was experiencing after maybe, say, three or four hours. You know yourself, you sit down, you do three or four hours, and you just stand up and say, I’m exhausted. And you might have to go to work after that. Or you’re, you’re, you know, you’ve worked that day and the pomodoros, the 25 minutes, and then taking a five minute break, just walk around, you know, do get your have a little cup of tea, if you want, and then another 25 minutes and a five minute break, and four of them, and then after that, you would have to take a longer break, let’s say 1015 minutes. And that really helped me. You know, I felt like I mentally, I wasn’t draining my battery all the time. I think there is, it’s evidence based. There is evidence that that’s the case. So that was great. Two things, I would say, three things. I wrote a plan. I found a place. I was I was, what would you say, working efficiently, and I had this little kind of thing, and I still see it on my I’ve got my book in front of me, my I kept the journal and I would just write down four P’s. That was my goal on us, was to do 4p minimum a day like that was four pomodoros. And that worked for me, you know, not for everyone, maybe, but that got it moving. And then once it’s moving, you have momentum. The motivation is a little better.
Emma
Oh, I love this. I love this. And I think there’s two really important things to pick out of it. First of all, I think it is no surprise that in that, in that last two years, in that last phase, because you’re part time, so those last two years, and that’s when it really kicks in, in terms of, I think, I think perhaps I’m done here. This is very, very common towards the end. And if you are getting towards the end, this is very common to think, oh, blondie, you know, that’s it. I’m done. This can be for a range of reasons. And that’s the second thing that you talk about, tired. You might just be exhausted. Because if you are coming towards the end, especially if you’re part time, you will be exhausted. And so tiredness can really start to kind of true. Fatigue can start to kick in. So it isn’t that you can’t do it. You’re just really tired. So like you say, in terms of finding ways to re energize yourself, that can be really important. But I think also you can get really bored towards the end, if you’ve been doing this for a long time, you can have, there’s two things, isn’t it? It’s burnout, and there’s also bore out. You can be bored. And so I think that sense of again, finding a way to ignite and come back in, that can be, that can be another thing. But you know, there are other things at play as well. Towards the end, I think there’s real fear in terms of, is this going to happen? Can I do this? Am I good enough? But I think those themes that you touched on in terms of that sense of time and of energy are really, really key,
gordonmorrison
absolutely, and you just doubt yourself, your ability, I mean, to be honest, and I thought I had good command of of the English language. I had to learn to write academically, and that involved paragraphs that were coherent, and had got a bit of help on that, or I found a bit of help on that and keeping a storyline going through the PhD, I hadn’t got it when I started to sort of do my last draft, so I had to go back and try and generate this, like storyline. And it really felt like I was back at school, you know, thinking, wow, this is how can I not do this? So it was, but looking back, I mean, those were skills I learned, the time management skills, you know, the managing your energy and at times when, when you are exhausted, It’s dangerous to push yourself, I think, yes, yes, absolutely, just take an hour you know go for a walk, maybe it’s not sleep, you need but I found.
gordonmorrison
Definitely, oh, there’s, there’s an evidence base to it. You know, just for sure, your your brain, especially when you’re studying, my understanding is it burns a lot of glucose if you’re studying and rethinking hard. So it’s, it’s burning stuff at a heck of a rate, and you’re going to run out. So you’ve got to, you’ve got to a eat and be rest if you want to think straight. There
Emma
you go. And that’s the sports side. Sports Psychologist telling you that in the toddler, and he’s like, if a toddler is having attention, you’re kind of like, do they do they need? Do they need a snack? Should I need a rest? Do they need to go outside and and play. And I think checking in with yourself in that way can be really, really helpful, really helpful. Yep,
gordonmorrison
when I was having my pomodoros and my five minute break, I would have a little flaska tea with me, and I’d have a little like energy bar, or one of those cereal bars or something, a bit of fruit. And with the idea that I understand my brain is burning a lot of this kind of energy, carbohydrates. And that was also helped. Maybe there was a placebo, slight placebo effect there too. But it was just nice to have a little five minute break, looking forward to your cup of tea and your biscuit, whatever it was, a little reward for doing your 25 minutes of hard graft.
Emma
I love it. I love it. Cup of tea, clarity. And I think the sense of of not underestimating what you can get done in 25 minutes. And I will put on the show notes, I will put the link to the to the Pomodoro information, if people are interested in following that up, I think it’s good, yeah, yeah, because it can really work for some some people find it really full on and too intense. But for some people, it’s absolute game changer. And it really, as for you Gordon, it kind of, it’s really helped you to power power through, I
gordonmorrison
think, so you think you’ve done nothing in a month. You know, you think at the end of a month, God, I’ve done nothing. But you go back in your journal and you count the PS, and you see, oh, well, I did 60 PS. You know, that’s 30 hours. Wow, yes, I did quite a bit here, you know. So it can be that as well, you you’re kind of, at the end of the month, you’re also accountable to how much you’ve done. I
Emma
love it. I love it because it is that I’ve done nothing is pernicious, and it, of course, you’re never going to do as much as you want to, because we’re super ambitious people, and so is that kind of that accountancy and that audit of like, look, look at all the ticks in that box. Look at all the keys I have done that I have made progress. I have moved things forwards. Really, really important in terms of motivating yourself, especially in a moment where you think, blimey, this, you know, I can’t do this anymore.
gordonmorrison
No. And just I look back at my journal just before a call, and I see if I had a penny for every time I wrote, starting to go around in circles. Here. Did about five Ps, but not getting, not getting, going on a coherent structure, you know, things like that, like then another one just below it, two days later, slow going, and it’s just how it is. You know, it’s a slog, but it’ll, it’ll pass, and you’ll get days where you’re very productive, and then other days, we just, for whatever reason, it takes you two hours to get a diagram half right,
Emma
yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think this deep work, it’s deep work. It’s not just like rattling off some emails. It’s a kind of it’s got a different energy to it. And I think how gorgeous to have that conversation with yourself as well. I think journey is so powerful in terms of okay to because you’re noting those days when things did go well as well and but also you’ve got a place to bring it where, when it’s when it’s hard, when it is hard,
gordonmorrison
absolutely, most people listening will be in the same situation I was when I started listening to you about two years ago. You know, just, just at that juncture where they think I’ve got to get this over the line, and I have so much to do, and I have so much going on in my life. But, you know, it does pass. It’s amazing how fast it goes by. And provided you like that lady said to me, write a bit every day, if you can. That was a great piece of advice. You’ll get there.
Emma
Yeah, I think that regular conversation, isn’t it, with with your PhD, and I know, for some people that might you know, because people have got different situations, that every day might not be possible, but, but that sense of getting in contact like you say, we’re not, we’re not talking about writing reams every day, just even a thought towards your PhD, because you will be anyway every day, that sense of keeping that conversation going,
gordonmorrison
Yeah, and just even, like listening to a podcast that gives you a bit of reassurance that I would, I would count that exactly. Well,
Emma
I think we just dropped out again for a minute. Okay, Gordon,
gordonmorrison
I am, I can you hear me?
Emma
So I am aware of time, and just like the PhD eventually passes quickly, these episodes always go really quickly before I ask you, before I ask you to give us some top tips. You’ve already given us so many good or wonderful gems, but I do just want to go back to go back to something you said right at the beginning, where you’re, you were a few publications, and that, you know, you were worried that things weren’t good enough. I just want to, I wanted to pick up on that, because this is so common, and remembering that the publication rate for journal articles, you know, it’s about 80 to 90% get rejected. And so it doesn’t mean that your work isn’t good enough, as you know now, obviously, but in that moment when you get the rejection, and this may be happening to other people. So I just want to remind everybody that a desk rejection does not mean that that work is not renewable. It just means that many, many disc reductions happen.
gordonmorrison
That’s right. I mean, they as you know, if you compare a publication trying to publish something, and compare that to how your how your examiners treat you in the Viva, it’s, it’s worlds apart. You know, they will not have that they will not be trying to destroy your work. They will try to understand your work. And this is the in the Viva, but the publication thing is generally pretty negative experience. But, you know, it’s a bit of a wake up call too. And I try to do it by myself, because my supervisor, obviously is very busy guy, and I just try to power on myself with the publications, but you need partners. I think if you’re going to do that, that would be my advice on that one.
Emma
Oh, that’s gorgeous advice. And can you tell us a little bit about your Viva experience? Because we had a little chat before we started, and you said lovely thing about kind of leaving the Viva room. And I just, I’d like everybody, like, if you’d be happy to share that with everyone.
gordonmorrison
Yes, I mean, because with the vibe, I mean, I took, you know, you, your your guest that you had on one of your podcasts, Nathan from Viva survivor, that would be one of my top tips. And whatever Nathan says, and you say, I would tend to go with that. And he suggested mock Vivas, and I have quite a few mock Vivas in the run up to my real viva, and that helped immensely. And you know, because nobody knows your research better than you do, because that’s the case about it was a three hour viva, but after about two hours, 45 minutes, I thought, These guys have hardly got started. I’m going to be in here all day. And then they started looking at each other and saying, Have you any more questions to each other? And said, no, no. And I just looked at my looked at my shoes, and I thought, this is hard to get is it this? This feels pretty positive. I mean, if they failed me now, after, after hardly, you know, hardly attacking anything you know, other than having a very open discussion, I felt I went in with an open mind, and then I went away for a wee while, and they took me back in and said, you know, congratulations. I thought, Wow. I was speechless. I mean, I just shook the hands left. I had to go and catch a train, left and went. They must have thought that was strange. I hardly reacted such a shock
Emma
and a release. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I just you were saying about how you know they were shaking your hand to be really positive about your work. And
gordonmorrison
yeah, and I was there just going, Oh yeah, thanks. And I just my train. I just said, Guys, I’m really I have to apologize. They asked me to come for a coffee or and I said, I have to apologize. I’ve got to run and get a train. I’ve got a flight to catch, because I’m living in Norway, so I had to go to the airport and that, I just thought that must have come across pretty weird, but I just went, got on my train, and life went on. Amazing. It was, it was a major relief, but it only really hits like, a few days later.
Emma
Yeah, I think, I think that you can be really in shock in the Viva, but those moments where you’re sitting there in the library going, this is never going to happen. And yet in that viva, the positive feedback, the way in which people were responding to your work, recognizing the the wisdom in that work, a really important thing to remember that you’re writing for an audience that wants to engage with your work.
gordonmorrison
Yes, and you have to be close to it. I think that’s one of I’d say. I know you’re always looking for recommendations. You’ve got your approach, period, good, bad or indifferent, your work will be, will have weaknesses, you know, but if you’re really on top of your work and you Understand the weaknesses, I think that comes up in the mock viva, and you are very close to that thesis. It’s I took Nathan’s advice, and I had like post its put in different pages, marking out the starts, a chapter, significant areas and so on. But I didn’t really have to do that much because that I knew the I knew the I knew the research quite well, so I could answer without recourse to having to read the answers. So I think that that’s a big thing, being close to your own research, and remember that they don’t know as much about it as you do.
Emma
There’s the thing, there is the thing. Gordon, thank you so so much. I just want to make sure that we haven’t missed any of your top tips.
gordonmorrison
Yep. Did you have anything? I had a mentor, a guy who was familiar with a guy I knew from years ago, a psychologist who he just acted as a sounding board, and he was the guy who did the mock Vivas with me. Mainly, I did one with my supervisor as well, which was also helpful the podcasts and listening to people like yourself and Nathan. I think it’s important maybe have a network. I had a small network of other people from my profession that were also doing PhDs that was really supportive, and I think maybe that was it. And I also had some copies of other PhDs that had already been completed, and they were useful, you know. Just want an example of how people write the end of a chapter, you know, or write their general discussion. It was there, and I found that really useful. So that would be my list. I think of tips
Emma
golden. Well, once more, Congratulations, Dr Morrison, and thank you.
Emma
Time today, I
gordonmorrison
think, hope it helps,
Emma
sure it Will. Thank you and thank you all For listening